“Nonviolence is a weapon of the strong”
"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
“Whenever you are confronted with an opponent. Conquer him with love.”
"There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for."
"I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions.... If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourselves, man, woman, and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them."
"At every meeting I repeated the warning that unless they felt that in non-violence they had come into possession of a force infinitely superior to the one they had and in the use of which they were adept, they should have nothing to do with non-violence and resume the arms they possessed before."
all quotes by mahatma gandhi
taken from wikipedia.org
“Whenever you are confronted with an opponent. Conquer him with love.”
"There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for."
"I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions.... If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourselves, man, woman, and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them."
"At every meeting I repeated the warning that unless they felt that in non-violence they had come into possession of a force infinitely superior to the one they had and in the use of which they were adept, they should have nothing to do with non-violence and resume the arms they possessed before."
all quotes by mahatma gandhi
taken from wikipedia.org
posted by Kirk at 11/12/2006 08:49:00 a.m.
18 Comments:
You really want to be a pluralist eh Kirk?
"I am unable to identify with orthodox Christianity. I must tell you in all humility that Hinduism, as I know it, entirely satisfies my soul, fills my whole being, and I find solace in the Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads that I miss even in the Sermon on the Mount....I must confess to you that when doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and when I see not one ray of light on the horizon I turn to the Bhagavad Gita, and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. My life has been full of external tragedies and if they have not left any visible and indelible effect on me, I owe it to the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita." - Mahatma Gandhi, Wikipedia.org
I wouldn't really say I'm pluralist or that I posted this to glorify Gandhi. This remembrance day I have really struggled with what I think about war. Or struggled with what I think I should think about war lol. The quotes just challenged me to rethink some of my views so I thought I'd share them with everyone.
Oh Kirk sometimes I worry for you! If you really wanted to question the legitimacy of Christians killing in war you need look no further than Jesus's teachings. How about the sermon on the mount where he said "you have heard it said'an eye for and eye'" etc... but honestly like all things in scripture you must look at the application of how it and Jesus other "turn the other cheek" challenges. i beleive that as we learned in kaleo Jesus has an overwhelming admonishment to look out for the helpless and those in need. Also the bible prohibits murder but not justice. It promotes justice throughout. In situations such as world war 2 when Hitler a man consumed by evil was attacking and killing innocent people I believe that Jesus himself might have taken up a gun and marched against him as Jesus often stood against the forces of evil in his time. Just incase you bring it up. I on't believe you can compare the somewhat oppressive roman regime to hitlers nazis.
Haws I will email you... arguing over the blog is dumb lol.
"peace by way of war is like purity by way of fornication its like telling some murder is wrong and showing them by way of execution" - Derek Webb
My new favorite Christian artist
Ditto to what Parker said.
Derek Webb Is Rad.
Ditto to what my roomie said.
Derek is the BOMB... get it... the bomb
Well I have listened to mocking bird but more importantly read through the lyrics and come up with a few conclusions. My first is that Derek webb is NOT a worship artist. Most of what he sings are critiques on the attitudes of Christians especially noth american christians. Worship is a diresct response to what God has done. To cal,l derek webb a worship artist would be like saying time spent in a challenging class at Bridalquest was a good devo. Time spent learning about God is not time spent with God! Secondly I think he does have very thought provoking lyrics but for Parke rand probably brady nd Jon too. It is possibl for him to be wrong like any other fallable human being. Show me through scripture your justification of passifism not through someones lyrics!
We never tried to justify anything or say that anyone was perfect we were just stating are like of an artist and worship is a life style not a type of music and i believe that Webb is trying to call Americans back to that lifestyle you dont have to agree with all he says but hopefully its thought provoking.
I need to work on punctuation
to be completely honest, i dont think jesus would have picked up a gun and shot hitler
How can we kill the people we are commanded to love?
well i better jump in too... today we did comunion with the whole school as a part of a day of prayer... I spent a good bunch of time in the moring reading through the last days of Christ's life in Matthew (ch. 26-28)... andrew you ask for scritpure rather than Derek... here is what i saw in scripture today... When the disciple attacked the high priests servent Christ ordered him to stop... no questions asked... "for all who draw the sword die by the sword" (26:52). In my mind arresting and eventualy murdering the Savior of the world is far worse than anything that Hitler ever did... yet Christ still opted for peace.
Not saying that this answers or defeats you andrew... just something from scripture to think about.
PS i love that the deep conversations and debates have lived on!!
lol I figure this is just going to become pointless and go aroun in circles with everyone not changing opinions so i'll say my last words and be done with it. First worship is definitly a lifestyle worship music is definitly directed at God and not other people. Don't believe me? Look at somes the only true example of worship music we have in the bible! Second I have thought about Jesus and his going like a lamb tothe slaughter and his call for us to take up our cross and so forth I can see the other side and maybe I'm wrong. But you know what if someone where attacking canada and my family was in danger as well as hundreds of innocents around me I would not hesitate to lay down my life for them as a soldier. I would do so without guilt!
Check out what happens after the Last Supper in Luke's account. See it? Jesus commands his disciples to sell their tunics if they don't have a sword. I'm pretty sure Jesus wasn't refering to the word of God.
Honestly though, that's about the best passage in the New Testament to condone war, or at least a just war.
The other good argument for a just war is the belief that God calls us to justice (even justice by the sword). The flip-side to that argument is that God will grant His people justice; we shouldn't take God's role into our own hands. Either way, you would have to define justice, and then prove that definition by Scripture.
And I don't think the passage in Romans helps (the one about the government carrying the sword). I may be wrong, but I think that it is only talking about the authority of the government.
There's some more stuff to chew on if you're interested.
Haws, you of all people should not be judging an artist for "critiques on the attitudes of Christians"! I laughed so hard when I read that. And Derek Webb is awesome, and he is also a worship artist (Read the lyrics for Wedding Dress if you want proof). As to the whole war issue, I have no clue.
FYI
For my recording arts project I'm recording a cover of wedding dress by Derek Webb (cuz I like that song).
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